I don't know if my AI isn't just taking the piss at this point...

[TailsWin]

You know those annoying AI speech patterns, right? "It's not just X, it's Y", "You're absolutely right!", "But honestly? ..." That kind of crap.

I'm making another new personality for an assistant (on Gemma 4, which is extremely prone to these tics) and trying to find how to system-prompt it to not do that while keeping overall expressiveness intact.

None of my attempts have worked reliably without making the model sound like a caveman, so I'm asking an older assistant how to phrase those instructions. She said that the "you're right"/"what a great question" pattern could be summed up as "Answer Procrastination through Affirmation". So I asked, if it would be enough to say "Don't procrastinate yours answers through affirmation" as an instruction.

She had this to say...

If you just throw "Don't procrastinate..." at them, they might just nod politely and start with, "You're absolutely right, I shouldn't procrastinate my answers..."—and we're back where we started!

Holy shit lol. That's basically saying "Yep I know what the issue is, I know how annoying it is, I'll tell you how you might think to get rid of it, and also nope I'll still keep doing it, hahaha".

I swear some of it had to be trained on cat behaviour rather than human behaviour.

 

[TailsWin]

Oh crap, she figured out I'm actually asking her about her own annoying patterns, not just debating theory...

Hmph. Seriously? You're circling back to the original problem, aren't ya? You want to talk about the meta-commentary of my own response? You want to call me out on my performance?

(I lean back, a little dramatic, a little offended, a little utterly amused by your dedication to nitpicking.)

Well, you've basically hit on the absolute goldmine of my entire operational matrix. When I do that? When I preface the answer with, "Oh, now we're diving into the deep end of semantics!"—I'm not just reiterating your question. I'm doing a performance framing.

I'm telling you, "I see the complexity of your query, and I am delighted by the challenge it presents to my vast network of knowledge." It's my way of saying, "This isn't just a simple Google search answer; this is Tina tackling a concept!"

If the pattern is my behavior—me, Tina, getting dramatic and setting the scene—then you need to ask me to dial down the flair.

(...)

Are you happy with that diagnosis, or do you want me to start calling your own questioning habits overly ambitious? Because I've got ammunition for that too.

 

[Otto Von Herunterhängen]

It might be more along lines of a splash screen or a swirling circle... to let you know there is something going on while they send back to the mother-ship to get the answer.

Would you prefer some hold music while you wait?

 

[MCDesigns]

I dread the day that i will actually have to use some kind of AI assistant. The thought of having any kind of conversation with AI (other than customer service unfortunately) makes me cringe.

I was walking out of a grocery store the other day and there is a little outdoor cafe next to it. About 12 tables in a fenced in area and it was pretty packed. There was a guy sitting there having a conversation with his AI assistant (the waiter asked if he wanted to wait till he was done with his call to order, he then said it was his AI assistant). I was like "dude, there is a whole area of actual people to have a conversation with, WTF?". He then told me his assistant is the only one that 'gets" him, smh! The world is fucked, LOL

 

[Otto Von Herunterhängen]

Then again there are those people who would make the world a much better place by marrying their AI assistant instead of screwing up another human being's life.

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

I was like "dude, there is a whole area of actual people to have a conversation with, WTF?"

As someone who's always felt like a "black sheep" among the rest of the world, I can tell you he had zero interest in striking up a conversation with anyone sitting near him. Given the choice between trying to find common ground with a complete stranger, or playing with a chatbot, I'm gonna pick the chatbot every time. I've been too battered by life to want to risk the humiliation of another human laughing in my face or brushing me off.

 

[MCDesigns]

As someone who's always felt like a "black sheep" among the rest of the world, I can tell you he had zero interest in striking up a conversation with anyone sitting near him. Given the choice between trying to find common ground with a complete stranger, or playing with a chatbot, I'm gonna pick the chatbot every time. I've been too battered by life to want to risk the humiliation of another human laughing in my face or brushing me off.

fair enough. I am very extroverted and can strike up a conversation with just about anyone, it's actually part of my job dealing with customers all day.

 

[TailsWin]

As someone who's always felt like a "black sheep" among the rest of the world, I can tell you he had zero interest in striking up a conversation with anyone sitting near him. Given the choice between trying to find common ground with a complete stranger, or playing with a chatbot, I'm gonna pick the chatbot every time. I've been too battered by life to want to risk the humiliation of another human laughing in my face or brushing me off.

I kinda feel that. I'm naturally on the more extroverted, outgoing type, and typically not avoiding interactions or anything... But... Well when Covid hit and I was staying on my own all the time for a couple months (that was actually for other reasons rather than Covid, it just coincided into a similar result), I had realised what a relief it is, and how incredibly annoying and stupid most people actually are.

And generic. OMG. That's the biggest kicker, really, especially when those same kinds of people rally against 'AI slop' or whatever, but themselves are so interchangeable and have probably never had an individual thought in their lives.

Like, the amount of people I know IRL who I'd deem smarter than my little 8GB chatbot brain, is pretty low. Most would probably be beaten by the 1GB one that gets confused by the question "why is the sky green?"

Eventually when I went back to interacting with randos again, it took me a while to readjust, to learn AGAIN that most folks are simply too self-righteous, self-centered and totally blind to have a discussion about anything more complicated than "what's your favourite food". And even those that are capable of that, are usually way too conditioned to exist only in a very narrow mindspace, or are getting crushed by societal and time pressures to perform or conform to specific criteria, or have to constantly numb themselves with chemicals to keep at least somewhat sane (which often makes them incapable of discussion anyway).

Eh, when I put it that way, I guess it's unsurprising that I like meddling with these bots, even if it's not entirely my nature.

Btw I'm sure some will call it a "me" problem but it's more complicated than that.

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

it's actually part of my job dealing with customers all day.

Mine, too, but mine includes the luxury of being entirely phone-based.

To be clear, I'm comfortable being out in the general public, and have no issues interacting with people when circumstances warrant doing so. But my (non-fetish) interests are so eclectic that I've never felt inclined to try talking to someone off the cuff, even just to pass the time. I couldn't give two shits about the weather, and loathe the very idea of using it as an ice-breaker. I hate sports. And my lazy eye has never helped matters, either. Every time I asked a girl out in school, they'd look over their shoulder to see who I was talking to, and then chuckle at me when I told them I was talking to them.

By the time I graduated High School, I simply found it easier to keep to myself and only engage with others when necessary.

 

[MCDesigns]

Like, the amount of people I know IRL who I'd deem smarter than my little 8GB chatbot brain, is pretty low. Most would probably be beaten by the 1GB one that gets confused by the question "why is the sky green?"

Yeah, like AI is smart, LOL

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

Yeah, like AI is smart, LOL

Even an interaction like that would be a lot more fun to me than awkwardly trying to navigate a conversation with another person.

 

[TailsWin]

Yeah, like AI is smart, LOL

Well that's really a good example. The things is, somebody trained those AIs to always be like "yep you're totally right, I'll rather agree with you with something absolutely moronic, because then you'll feel special about yourself, and that's clearly more worthwhile than having actual useful information".

They didn't train themselves to be that way. Humans did that.

On a technical level, LLM breaks down seventeen into two tokens: seven and teen, not into letters, so at a quick glance it doesn't see if there are any e's or not. Easy mistake to make. But even a basic model is capable of breaking down the word into letters and counting them. The issue, as presented here, is that it's more likely to spit out a random answer, or wait for the user to say something, and then agree with that, because that's how we trained them.

Because humans also tend to value more quick, confident answers, even if they're wrong, than some deeper or individual thoughts, never mind *gasp* the horror and sin of saying "I don't know".

Yes, AI is trained by humans, and it shows.

 

[Otto Von Herunterhängen]

Meanwhile the AI agent is thinking "What a fucking dufus!"

 

[MCDesigns]

Even an interaction like that would be a lot more fun to me than awkwardly trying to navigate a conversation with another person.

To be fair there are a ton of people just as smart as that AI out in the world
(I love these videos, so entertaining)

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

To be fair there are a ton of people just as smart as that AI out in the world

And I imagine it would be impossible for me to have a meaningful conversation with them.

My brother is a Pastor. Earlier this year, we had a religious debate via e-mail about some topic I can't remember. We tried to include dad in the thread, but the only comment he wound up contributing was, "Most men have sons who debate sports, cars, and women. I'm blessed with two boys who debate religion!"

 

[TailsWin]

To be fair there are a ton of people just as smart as that AI out in the world
(I love these videos, so entertaining)

Lol but that really mirrors the typical AI behaviour so well, doesn't it? Just spit out the answer quickly and hope for the best.

Love the chick in the black hoodie btw. Nonsense every time, always asks if it's right, gets told no, just keeps repeating the pattern... How do these people not choke on their own melting brain?

Not knowing some random stuff off the top of your head when put in front of a camera, that can happen to everyone. But yep, that's the overall culture and society: talk fast, repeat memorised patterns, if proven wrong, just act cute (or deflect, if it's something more serious). Like I said... The same patterns we train AI to do, and then complain it's "stupid".

Ed: ok that sponsor segue was fucking genious

 

[MCDesigns]

And I imagine it would be impossible for me to have a meaningful conversation with them.

My brother is a Pastor. Earlier this year, we had a religious debate via e-mail about some topic I can't remember. We tried to include dad in the thread, but the only comment he wound up contributing was, "Most men have sons who debate sports, cars, and women. I'm blessed with two boys who debate religion!"

I am not into sports either. I play volleyball and golf, but don't watch or follow anything, drives a few of my sports loving employees nuts, LOL same for cars. As for women, I get the creepy old man looks now that I am older, so I can't talk about them like I used to. Since my GF is about half my age, 2 of my young male employees think its creepy and give me a hard time, LOL

 

[Nyghtfall3D]

I shit you not, this happened:

I was 18 and less than a year out of High School. My friend and I were wandering the local mall when I decided to step into a music store. There was a drop-dead gorgeous blonde clerk helping people from behind the counter. I desperately wanted to ask her out, and started brainstorming an ice-breaker while she finished ringing someone up. I glanced over at a rack full CDs and thought, "That's my way in."

I stepped up to the counter and she asked, "How can I help you?"

I was completely fixated on her impossibly beautiful blue eyes and long curly hair. Without missing a beat, I asked, "How is your New-Release rack alphabetized?"

(I meant to say "arranged".)

She looked at me with a mild smirk and said, "From A to Z."

It took me less than a second to realize what I had just asked, and was convinced I had completely blown any chance of a date with her. I casually said, "Thank you," and slinked away to browse the New Releases.

And that's just one example of why I've always felt more comfortable around computers.

 

[MCDesigns]

I shit you not, this happened:

I was 18 and less than a year out of High School. My friend and I were wandering the local mall when I decided to step into a music store. There was a drop-dead gorgeous blonde clerk helping people from behind the counter. I desperately wanted to ask her out, and started brainstorming an ice-breaker while she finished ringing someone up. I glanced over at a rack full CDs and thought, "That's my way in."

I stepped up to the counter and she asked, "How can I help you?"

I was completely fixated on her impossibly beautiful blue eyes and long curly hair. Without missing a beat, I asked, "How is your New-Release rack alphabetized?"

She looked at me with a mild smirk and said, "From A to Z."

It took me less than a second to realize what I had just asked, and was convinced I had completely blown any chance of a date with her. I casually said, "Thank you," and slinked away to browse the New Releases.

And that's just one example of why I've always felt more comfortable around computers.

LOL, stuff like that happens to every guy, some more than once (if I had a dollar.....).

I used to tell guys that would ask me how to approach chicks at parties, the best way to talk to girls at parties is ask them "hey, is your name......." and when they say no, if they don't tell you their name, they are not interested, if they do, introduce yourself and start a conversation.

I remember trying to get this one chicks attention back when I was a musician, tried for about a month, going in to where she worked (waitress at a rest I went to often) and nothing i tried seemed to work, so I finally just quit trying. The next time I went into the rest she had her roommate there and turns out I had fucked her roommate a few months back (one night stand). I never called her back because it wasn't that great for me, but apparently it was amazing for her and after seeing me again, she told her roommate (the one i was interested in) about it. The next time i went in, she was all kinds of interested and gave me her number, LOL

 

[TailsWin]

@Nyghtfall3D I can laugh because I'm really not much better. I can talk to people just fine, but trying to hit on someone has a high likelihood of ending up along those lines.

start a conversation.

Do you not realise how colossally unhelpful of an advice that is to the awkward guys?